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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 72

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always I am your host EXO academian

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if there's one thing that becomes

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abundantly clear to those who Endeavor

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to study the so-called UFO phenomenon

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closely it's that it defies easy

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categorization when you come across a

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researcher or Enthusiast who claims

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they've made quick work of exactly

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what's going on I.E Who's involved where

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they're from what their agenda is ETC

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you can be sure that their conclusions

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have more to do with their own wish

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fulfillment than with the data at hand

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that isn't to say there aren't

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distinctive patterns that emerge within

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the totality of human experience with

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these various non-human others giving

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Clues as to the underlying reality

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because I believe there are but even

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amongst these distinct patterns various

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elements of ambiguity still inevitably

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bubble to the surface resisting simple

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classification and description

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indeed this ambiguity may be part and

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parcel of a phenomenon that involves

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interaction with some entities who

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seemingly come from domains of existence

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far beyond our own or perhaps even

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Notions like space and time manifest

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very differently

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one of the elements where this applies

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is in regards to how human beings

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interpret the nature of their experience

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with these various non-human alien

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others along a spectrum ranging from

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positive to neutral to negative

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this somewhat murky picture becomes even

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murkier when one adds the element of

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time for evidence suggests that the

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longer people have to reflect on the

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nature of their encounters the more they

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begin to see their interactions in

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either a positive light or at least as a

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net neutral to be sure this is not

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always the case but nevertheless often

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enough to draw our attention

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perhaps this shouldn't be surprising

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after all few human beings are either

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all good or all bad most of us are

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progressing along a spiral of moral

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development to be sure some are further

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along than others but few are what we

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would describe as completely malevolent

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nor the epitome of righteous love and

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light

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it makes sense that the same would hold

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true for these mysterious non-human

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others especially when you consider that

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as I would pause it they are at the end

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of the day also facets of the same

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undivided Bedrock of Consciousness from

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which we all derive our being a being

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that is not in the most ultimate sense

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divided and distinct regardless of how

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these matters might appear at first

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blush

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I already mentioned that sometimes

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contact the slash abduct T slash

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experiencers find that their

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interpretation of the nature of their

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experience evolves over time given the

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Advent of further perspective

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often this comes down to letting the

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ontological shock wear off a little

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because lest we forget these are very

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often at least initially extremely

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traumatic experiences where human beings

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encounter strange looking entities that

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they've been told their entire lives

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cannot possibly exist

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that is not to say that trauma equals

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inherent negativity in terms of the

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intentions of these various others it

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just means that the physiological and

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neurological reaction to the event

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leaves clear evidence of PTSD for any

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trained therapist to find clear signs of

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beyond having perspectives change over

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the Long Haul once in a while we find

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the interpretation of an experience can

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change almost in real time or at least

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within a matter of days to weeks to

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months that's exactly what happened in a

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case we're going to delve into in this

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episode

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it involves the Abduction of two teenage

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parents and their young infant son

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where they take it against their will

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well that's complicated where they

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initially traumatized by the shocking

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nature of the experience yes absolutely

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so

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for the better to the point that their

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underlying understanding of themselves

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and of reality itself was expanded

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undeniably and here again we see the

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overtones of the complexity of these

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situations

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why are these experiences initially so

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ontologically shocking even when they

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can ultimately prove so positively

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transformative

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and why and how is the element of

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personal sovereignty and personal agency

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so complicated when it comes to the

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subject of alien contact and or

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abduction accounts

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these are the very matters we'll seek to

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engage with by delving deeply into an

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astonishing real world example in this

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the 72nd episode of the point of

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foreign

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I'd like to kick off this week's episode

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with a couple of announcements first of

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all next week I will be speaking at an

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event in New York City titled an inquiry

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into anomalous experiences and the

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phenomenon in-person tickets for that

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event are sold out but live stream

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tickets are still available and those

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who purchase those live stream tickets

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will also be able to watch the

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presentations from the event at their

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convenience afterwards and my

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understanding is this is being

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professionally shot as well

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now I will be recording an episode of

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liminal frames midweek and that will be

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available next Saturday October 8th

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which is also the date of the conference

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by the way for those of you who have not

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yet heard about liminal frames this is

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another podcast I do on the in between

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weeks between point of convergence

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episodes along with my co-host Nathan so

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definitely check that out that is

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available on my YouTube channel EXO

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academian and if you listen on a podcast

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Network it is its own designated podcast

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liminal frames frame spelled with a pH

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and finally thanks again to my patreon

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supporters and just to note that patreon

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supporters also get access to bonus

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loads once a month and ask me anything

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sessions as well

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all right on to today's topic now first

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of all on this podcast I like to toggle

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back and forth between what I call the

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micro and the macro view I've mentioned

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this numerous times but some of you will

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be fairly new to this podcast so I want

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to make that clear again

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I think it's important to continue to

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investigate and consider the nuances of

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particular cases while also pulling back

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to see potentially distinct patterns

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within the totality of the data from

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what I like to call the 30 000 foot View

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today we're going to discuss a

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fascinating case involving a young

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couple and their infant son that

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happened in the 1970s in the area of

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Kansas and Colorado

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this case is depicted in a book titled

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promise secrets revealed by a man who's

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since passed on named Richard sigismund

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now this is a relatively obscure book

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that probably very few of you have ever

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come across truth be told the book could

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have used some additional editing that

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said the material within is gold there

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are cases here that are not only truly

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mind-boggling but they are also covered

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in Rich detail

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one thing is clear sigismund the author

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was a skilled researcher and a skilled

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hypnotherapist trusted and often

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consulted by the famous J Ellen heinek

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no less

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he also demonstrated an unusual degree

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of side capacity as it turns out but

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while sigism was gifted psychically he

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was also very careful to be methodical

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and as unbiased as possible when working

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with people and in drawing his own

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conclusions based on the data that arose

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from his research

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now this particular case does involve

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the methodology known as hypnotic

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regression

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now people have different opinions on

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this some people are very for it some

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people are very against it most are

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somewhere in between

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personally I think it can be a very

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useful tool when it's used correctly

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clearly again J Ellen heineck was of

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this opinion as well and he thought that

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this particular person Richard sigismund

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was an example of a skilled researcher

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who followed the correct protocols he

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didn't ask leading questions as you'll

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find out in the case we discuss shortly

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that said unfortunately there are also

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those who have misused this particular

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methodology and have Incorporated

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leading questions and have on occasion

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even taken advantage of the position of

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power they have over a patient of course

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this is absolutely wrong to be

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discouraged and people who do this

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should be investigated in my opinion

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but as is often the case in any kind of

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therapy we should not throw the baby out

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with the bath water there are some

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hypnotherapists who do great work and I

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think it can be very helpful especially

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to people who've had experiences with

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the UFO phenomenon where memory blockage

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is often a main concern

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and again in this particular situation

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Richard sigismund I think is an example

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of the kind of therapist that does great

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work and has actually helped many many

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people as a result

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but as a caveat if you are someone who's

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had an experience with the UFO

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phenomenon and are thinking about

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actually reaching out to have hypnotic

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regression done I would just caution to

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make sure you find someone who is

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reputable and has been put forward as a

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good example by others

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now to be clear this book was actually

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published after Richard sigismund's

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death and the book is based on his notes

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and he authored most of it but it was

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put together and finally published after

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his death which was in April of 2018 and

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this is what the book says by way of Bio

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quote with an open mind but no tolerance

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for turning his research into the Absurd

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Richard used his ability to hypnotize

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experiencers who were often caught in

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their own fear confusion and for the

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general population at the time

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unbelievable stories

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these people often experienced a loss of

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time as well as a loss of memory he used

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his skills to help those who came to him

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but also to discover what he could from

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their experiences

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when Richard started writing his book he

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only worked with and hypnotized people

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who were abducted together he hypnotized

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each separately why he wanted to get the

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experiences from each person without the

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influence of the other or others to

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allow for the most honest information he

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could attain from each experiencer

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unquote

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now as I mentioned this case came his

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way by way of the famous J Allen heineck

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and I'll pick up from when the book

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describes how that happened quote the

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day is the fourth of July 1976. it was a

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little before Steven Spielberg would

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00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:01,500
leave us Spellbound with Close

282
00:11:05,690 --> 00:11:03,899
Encounters of the Third Kind and about

283
00:11:07,490 --> 00:11:05,700
six years more before the gifted

284
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,500
director would bring the world another

285
00:11:11,930 --> 00:11:09,360
wondrous fantasy

286
00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:11,940
ET the Extraterrestrial taking our

287
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:14,399
curiosity along further a Counterpoint

288
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:16,079
to The War of the Worlds

289
00:11:20,449 --> 00:11:18,120
on this holiday a group of friends

290
00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:20,459
gathered in the late afternoon around a

291
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:22,440
picnic table by the side of my flower

292
00:11:27,650 --> 00:11:24,720
garden in Boulder Colorado

293
00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:27,660
the phone rings my caller is a colleague

294
00:11:32,810 --> 00:11:30,660
in UFO research the astrophysicist Alan

295
00:11:35,150 --> 00:11:32,820
heineck calling from his home in

296
00:11:37,550 --> 00:11:35,160
Evanston Illinois same with some

297
00:11:39,290 --> 00:11:37,560
misgiving in his voice I hope I'm not

298
00:11:41,210 --> 00:11:39,300
interrupting anything it being the

299
00:11:43,069 --> 00:11:41,220
fourth but Richard I've been looking

300
00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:43,079
over a brief report that came in at the

301
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:45,480
center the other day it's possibly UFO

302
00:11:49,730 --> 00:11:47,519
related but on the other hand it may

303
00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:49,740
just be fantasy or a hoax you know the

304
00:11:55,550 --> 00:11:52,140
problem anyway it involves a young

305
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,560
couple Carol Joe and their baby they

306
00:11:59,530 --> 00:11:57,360
live out there in Colorado and it seems

307
00:12:03,170 --> 00:11:59,540
to involve Amnesia missing time

308
00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:03,180
allegedly several lost hours they claim

309
00:12:07,310 --> 00:12:05,399
to have been left with strange marks on

310
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:07,320
their bodies and on their infant child

311
00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:09,839
as well the report here says they were

312
00:12:14,930 --> 00:12:12,180
going home to Colorado coming out your

313
00:12:16,910 --> 00:12:14,940
way from Ohio driving at night stopping

314
00:12:19,610 --> 00:12:16,920
to watch some luminous disc shaped

315
00:12:21,710 --> 00:12:19,620
objects maneuvering at this point they

316
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:21,720
claim to have lost the rest of the night

317
00:12:26,030 --> 00:12:23,760
I thought it might be right up your

318
00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:26,040
alley if you want to look into it what

319
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,540
would you being out there and your

320
00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:29,760
background in Psychology and hypnosis

321
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,220
but like I said there might not be

322
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:34,320
anything to it possibly a waste of your

323
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:37,920
time to pursue what do you think unquote

324
00:12:42,829 --> 00:12:40,320
now a couple notes here first of all I'm

325
00:12:45,310 --> 00:12:42,839
glad he began by describing the

326
00:12:49,009 --> 00:12:45,320
situation describing the ERA this is

327
00:12:51,290 --> 00:12:49,019
1976 the notion of alien abduction was

328
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:51,300
still relatively unknown certainly not

329
00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:52,800
like it is today

330
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:54,660
now as I mentioned at the outset

331
00:12:59,569 --> 00:12:57,600
sigismund was a skilled researcher a

332
00:13:01,550 --> 00:12:59,579
no-nonsense researcher even though he

333
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,560
used some unconventional means like

334
00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:04,079
hypnotherapy and one of the first things

335
00:13:08,329 --> 00:13:06,300
he would do is work to try to determine

336
00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:08,339
the credibility of the people he was

337
00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:09,420
working with

338
00:13:13,850 --> 00:13:12,300
quoting from the book again quote my

339
00:13:15,949 --> 00:13:13,860
work was to gauge whether this case

340
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,959
warranted the effort to discern a

341
00:13:21,230 --> 00:13:18,480
possible motive for Conjuring up a tall

342
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:21,240
tale as a counselor I had heard many

343
00:13:25,310 --> 00:13:23,040
initially convincing stories told by

344
00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:25,320
Artful people unquote

345
00:13:29,150 --> 00:13:27,420
now in regards to this couple that he

346
00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:29,160
was interviewing and potentially going

347
00:13:34,490 --> 00:13:32,040
to work with he said the following quote

348
00:13:37,069 --> 00:13:34,500
to dispel this hypothesis their story

349
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:37,079
seemed quite unrehearsed moreover

350
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,120
Beneath The Narrative was an underlying

351
00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:41,519
element of fear something had shaken

352
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:44,100
them to the core it's hard to fabricate

353
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:46,320
that kind of reaction nor did they

354
00:13:50,569 --> 00:13:48,360
appear to belong to what remained of the

355
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:50,579
spaced out psychedelic subcultures of

356
00:13:56,269 --> 00:13:53,100
the time for whom reality and fantasy

357
00:14:00,290 --> 00:13:56,279
were often inextricably entwined flower

358
00:14:02,329 --> 00:14:00,300
children yes but disarmingly rational I

359
00:14:04,509 --> 00:14:02,339
saw the marks on their bodies some were

360
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,519
prominent despite the passage of time

361
00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:06,720
especially commanding with the long

362
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,480
striations on Carol's back I was told

363
00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:11,279
that the marks had been more Vivid

364
00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:13,560
earlier unquote

365
00:14:18,350 --> 00:14:15,779
now what's fascinating with a researcher

366
00:14:20,269 --> 00:14:18,360
that is objective like sigismund he

367
00:14:22,009 --> 00:14:20,279
actually goes out of his way to see if

368
00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:22,019
there's other possibilities other

369
00:14:26,269 --> 00:14:24,300
explanations other than alien abduction

370
00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:26,279
and he actually takes this couple

371
00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:28,380
through a series of questions to get

372
00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:30,360
them to consider the possibility that it

373
00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:33,240
might be something else entirely this is

374
00:14:37,069 --> 00:14:35,160
exactly the opposite of leading

375
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:37,079
questions in my point of view

376
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:39,540
quoting from the book again quote

377
00:14:44,269 --> 00:14:41,519
I wanted them to consider a possibility

378
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,279
that if we were to employ hypnosis and

379
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:46,079
it revealed that nothing extraordinary

380
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:48,000
happened during the time for which they

381
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:49,980
could not account could they live with

382
00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:52,320
that their sense of missing time might

383
00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:53,940
have been brought on by monotony

384
00:14:58,490 --> 00:14:57,060
creating a kind of self-hypnosis not an

385
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:58,500
uncommon event

386
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,360
how did they get their strange marks on

387
00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:02,639
their bodies could it have been a shared

388
00:15:07,370 --> 00:15:04,980
psychological event this was the theory

389
00:15:08,930 --> 00:15:07,380
entertained by Dr Benjamin Simon early

390
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:08,940
in the Betty and Barney Hill abduction

391
00:15:12,290 --> 00:15:10,019
case

392
00:15:14,329 --> 00:15:12,300
Carol interjected what if our minds

393
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:14,339
produced all the marks and everything is

394
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:16,800
that what you're asking yes can you live

395
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,360
with that possibility

396
00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:19,920
I suggest that you take the question

397
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:23,160
home and give it some thought unquote

398
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:24,959
now obviously the reason I brought up

399
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:26,940
that particular section of the book is

400
00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:28,980
to demonstrate just how objective he was

401
00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:31,320
attempting to be he wanted even this

402
00:15:35,329 --> 00:15:32,760
couple to consider that it might have

403
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:35,339
been nothing unusual whatsoever and that

404
00:15:39,889 --> 00:15:37,199
there might be a prosaic explanation

405
00:15:41,689 --> 00:15:39,899
even for the markings on their body that

406
00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:41,699
again says to me this is an objective

407
00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:44,100
researcher and I can see how heinek

408
00:15:49,730 --> 00:15:47,100
sought him out specifically

409
00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:49,740
all right so as it turns out after the

410
00:15:53,689 --> 00:15:51,420
couple considered what he had said to

411
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:53,699
them they agreed to go into hypnosis

412
00:15:58,490 --> 00:15:56,699
regardless of what they found and this

413
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:58,500
is actually what ended up happening when

414
00:16:02,750 --> 00:16:00,839
they recalled the event quoting again

415
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:02,760
from the book quote

416
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:04,980
just before the Amnesia which seems to

417
00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:08,519
have happened at about 1 15 a.m Joe and

418
00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:10,980
Carol left Goodland Kansas approaching

419
00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:13,620
Burlington Colorado driving West on

420
00:16:20,030 --> 00:16:16,740
Interstate I-70 in the open Plains of

421
00:16:22,009 --> 00:16:20,040
Western Kansas Joe is driving Carol is

422
00:16:24,410 --> 00:16:22,019
kidding Joe who at the moment is not too

423
00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:24,420
happy about her spilling hot coffee in

424
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:26,820
his lap after she handed him a paper cup

425
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,240
she just uncapped as this mini crisis is

426
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,639
resolved Joe notices his headlights

427
00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:35,040
flickering and fading then coming back

428
00:16:39,889 --> 00:16:37,440
on again Joe wonders what is happening

429
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:39,899
to the car's electrical system at the

430
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:41,940
same time the car's audio speakers make

431
00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:44,220
weird hissing sounds that threaten to

432
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,160
shut out their tape playing rock music

433
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:49,920
Carol shouts Joe look up out the window

434
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,560
in the sky Joe look at those things

435
00:16:58,430 --> 00:16:54,480
they're right up there just flying

436
00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:58,440
around wow look Joe Joe slows down they

437
00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:00,779
both observe three large disc shaped

438
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:03,000
objects they are silver with swirling

439
00:17:07,549 --> 00:17:05,640
orange red and blue colored lights the

440
00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:07,559
three discs now race toward each other

441
00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:09,900
while a fourth descends quickly from

442
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,660
somewhere above they meet in a burst of

443
00:17:17,449 --> 00:17:15,360
blue light then the one from above zooms

444
00:17:19,850 --> 00:17:17,459
back up into the sky while one of the

445
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:19,860
original Three descends and appears to

446
00:17:24,409 --> 00:17:22,319
land in a wooded area up ahead

447
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:24,419
a quick burst of light briefly

448
00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:27,419
illuminates the area meanwhile a strange

449
00:17:31,789 --> 00:17:29,700
golden glowing dumbbell-shaped object

450
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:31,799
looking like two golden spheres

451
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:33,720
connected by an equally glowing Golden

452
00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:37,140
Rod appears it appears to be tailing

453
00:17:41,650 --> 00:17:39,780
their car it's now visible in the rear

454
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:41,660
window and following them closely

455
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:44,100
accelerating and slowing as if quite

456
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:46,559
determined to keep Pace Carroll's

457
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,360
initial amazement now turns to alarm

458
00:17:51,950 --> 00:17:50,640
it's following us Joe it's really

459
00:17:54,169 --> 00:17:51,960
following us

460
00:17:57,529 --> 00:17:54,179
Joe tries to dismiss Carol's concern

461
00:17:58,970 --> 00:17:57,539
instead he marbles at it all now nobody

462
00:18:02,510 --> 00:17:58,980
can tell me there's no such thing as

463
00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:02,520
UFOs nobody Carol for her part turns to

464
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:04,740
watch the two remaining discs she is

465
00:18:09,169 --> 00:18:07,320
curious yet apprehensive they look like

466
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:09,179
the ones I saw with my mother in Ohio

467
00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:11,700
one time Joe look how they skip around

468
00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:12,780
the sky

469
00:18:17,150 --> 00:18:14,820
she ignores the glowing dumbbell object

470
00:18:19,850 --> 00:18:17,160
out the back window as she observes the

471
00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:19,860
other discs Joe continues

472
00:18:24,409 --> 00:18:22,140
Carol just think how great it would be

473
00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:24,419
to go up in one of those things and see

474
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:26,100
what it's like to fly around out in

475
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:28,740
space wouldn't you like to go

476
00:18:34,130 --> 00:18:31,679
Carol replies guess I'd go I mean like

477
00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:34,140
if the baby wasn't in the car they

478
00:18:38,810 --> 00:18:36,120
tossed this theme around when they see a

479
00:18:41,330 --> 00:18:38,820
fleet of four more objects in the sky

480
00:18:42,890 --> 00:18:41,340
Carol describes the new arrivals they

481
00:18:45,169 --> 00:18:42,900
don't have the blue and orange swirling

482
00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:45,179
lights like the others they're tapered

483
00:18:49,370 --> 00:18:47,700
thinner on the edge then kind of fat in

484
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:49,380
the middle they're brighter in the

485
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:51,120
middle part and there's a silvery glow

486
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:53,940
on the whole outside Joe all is the

487
00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:55,679
mechanic finds himself comparing what

488
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,480
they have been seeing with their own

489
00:19:02,450 --> 00:18:59,760
rather beat up vehicle and he finds the

490
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:02,460
comparison unflattering theirs is a Ford

491
00:19:06,529 --> 00:19:04,860
he explained whose electrical system had

492
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,539
been acting up before they left Colorado

493
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:08,880
and it seems to have resisted all

494
00:19:13,610 --> 00:19:11,220
attempts to get fixed finding the

495
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:13,620
comparison increasingly unpleasant Joe

496
00:19:18,830 --> 00:19:16,559
again teases his mate Carol those just

497
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:18,840
got to be flying saucers you know UFOs

498
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:22,080
look what they can do well man if they

499
00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:23,820
can do all that I'll bet they could fix

500
00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:25,140
this damn car

501
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,539
he pushes Carol for response like the 19

502
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:29,760
year old he was a young man with a wild

503
00:19:34,669 --> 00:19:32,220
imagination and a love of Technology

504
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:34,679
Carol what if I volunteer us as guinea

505
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:36,720
pigs I've heard they sometimes want that

506
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:39,600
I mean if they fix the car how about it

507
00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:41,340
unquote

508
00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:43,620
now I bring this particular section to

509
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:45,539
your attention because as it turns out

510
00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:48,120
they do end up having interaction with

511
00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:51,240
the beings flying these UFOs but again

512
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:53,580
just to clarify Joe actually talked

513
00:19:58,909 --> 00:19:56,160
about them being guinea pigs he said

514
00:20:00,770 --> 00:19:58,919
perhaps jokingly to his wife what do you

515
00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:00,780
think about us going and meeting them

516
00:20:06,289 --> 00:20:03,720
and going for a ride in space in one of

517
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:06,299
those UFOs as it turns out that's

518
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,940
exactly what ends up happening but again

519
00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:10,320
when we think about the issue of

520
00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:12,900
sovereignty and agency in all fairness

521
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:14,700
we just want to bring to your attention

522
00:20:18,770 --> 00:20:16,799
here that they actually talked about

523
00:20:20,930 --> 00:20:18,780
this happening before it actually

524
00:20:23,330 --> 00:20:20,940
happened before they had the experience

525
00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:23,340
with missing time

526
00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:25,140
I also want to bring to your attention

527
00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:26,940
although it might have skipped past you

528
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:29,100
without you noticing that Carol actually

529
00:20:33,529 --> 00:20:31,260
mentions here that they looked like the

530
00:20:36,350 --> 00:20:33,539
one she once saw one time with her

531
00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:36,360
mother in Ohio now I would say that's a

532
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,340
very key because often what we find is

533
00:20:42,770 --> 00:20:40,799
people who do have experiences with the

534
00:20:45,409 --> 00:20:42,780
Phenomenon with the beings that actually

535
00:20:47,810 --> 00:20:45,419
end up contacting them they find that

536
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:47,820
actually the memory stretch back further

537
00:20:51,890 --> 00:20:50,400
than they initially realized often only

538
00:20:54,049 --> 00:20:51,900
later do they realize that they have

539
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:54,059
memories going back to much earlier in

540
00:20:58,610 --> 00:20:56,400
life and so it's interesting that again

541
00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:58,620
here we find that's the case that even

542
00:21:02,810 --> 00:21:00,539
though this is the situation that really

543
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:02,820
draws all the attention Carol has

544
00:21:08,270 --> 00:21:05,220
memories of seeing these even before

545
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:08,280
then which again sometimes hints to a

546
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,260
lifetime connection

547
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,720
now let's jump back into the book where

548
00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:14,880
they last remember something and then

549
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,740
suddenly find themselves much further

550
00:21:22,370 --> 00:21:19,679
down the road with hours of missing time

551
00:21:24,590 --> 00:21:22,380
quote Joe finds a place to pull off the

552
00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:24,600
highway opens the car door and sits up

553
00:21:29,630 --> 00:21:26,580
on the hood he watches the golden

554
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:29,640
glowing dumbbell-shaped craft it too has

555
00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:31,620
stopped and hovers low and just a little

556
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:33,900
behind them the rest of the aerial

557
00:21:38,510 --> 00:21:36,600
assembly seems to have gone at this

558
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:38,520
point Joe and Carol's conscious memory

559
00:21:43,810 --> 00:21:41,280
abruptly ends I learned that their story

560
00:21:48,049 --> 00:21:43,820
picks up some four hours later

561
00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:48,059
150 miles further west unquote

562
00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:49,620
and from here we're going to pick up

563
00:21:54,770 --> 00:21:52,200
with Carol's initial hypnotic regression

564
00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:54,780
and this is very very telling it goes

565
00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:56,460
into what happens during those four

566
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,500
hours of missing time

567
00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:00,960
quoting from the book again quote

568
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:03,720
I ask where are you Carol

569
00:22:08,690 --> 00:22:05,520
I'm standing in the doorway of something

570
00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:08,700
it's like a big round thing it's silvery

571
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:10,740
it's really big some sort of ship I

572
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:13,740
think I go up and up and up and up these

573
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:16,559
steps there's a landing the steps turn

574
00:22:22,190 --> 00:22:19,200
and go up and up more they're silvery

575
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,200
too metal some sort of that's why I got

576
00:22:26,029 --> 00:22:24,480
up in this big doorway it's bright and

577
00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:26,039
there are lights going around and around

578
00:22:30,470 --> 00:22:28,679
and around on the bottom of the ship if

579
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:30,480
that's what it is I guess it's a ship

580
00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:33,120
and there are colors they're real bright

581
00:22:37,370 --> 00:22:34,980
and that's on the bottom of the ship and

582
00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:37,380
it goes round real fast

583
00:22:41,470 --> 00:22:39,720
Carol now becomes silent and for a long

584
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:41,480
time will not respond to questions

585
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,159
seeking to break this resistance I ask

586
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:46,320
her her potentially emotionally loaded

587
00:22:51,950 --> 00:22:48,780
question Carol do you know where Joe is

588
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:51,960
and your baby slowly as if disconnected

589
00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:55,440
and lost Carol replies I don't know I

590
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:57,000
don't know he was just ahead of me I

591
00:23:02,390 --> 00:22:59,280
followed him up and up the stairs and

592
00:23:04,970 --> 00:23:02,400
Mickey I don't know I don't know her

593
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:04,980
voice Trails off I ask again about her

594
00:23:10,909 --> 00:23:07,679
baby she ignores the question I try

595
00:23:12,770 --> 00:23:10,919
another approach Carol I inquire tell me

596
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:12,780
how you got to the ship describe what

597
00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:14,460
you and Jill were doing if you can

598
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:17,220
before you went up the stairs

599
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:20,340
Carol replies but in a dull monotone she

600
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:21,720
relates that they went off the road

601
00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:23,760
somewhere on down away and then cut

602
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:26,100
across the fields for about 10 minutes

603
00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:27,900
following a strange looking flying

604
00:23:32,750 --> 00:23:29,940
device that looked like two golden

605
00:23:34,730 --> 00:23:32,760
spheres connected by a glowing Rod they

606
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:34,740
drove until they came to some Woods then

607
00:23:39,409 --> 00:23:36,240
went through an opening in the woods

608
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:39,419
leading them to a big open area here was

609
00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:42,000
the ship Carol says we cut across the

610
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:45,720
fields at an angle we go on and on why

611
00:23:50,210 --> 00:23:48,000
do you do this I ask and she replies

612
00:23:53,270 --> 00:23:50,220
that she does not know why Joe is doing

613
00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:53,280
this does it bother you I ask

614
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,140
I don't feel anything I'm sort of

615
00:23:58,909 --> 00:23:57,360
worried but I don't feel anything we're

616
00:24:00,770 --> 00:23:58,919
coming to the woods

617
00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:00,780
then tell me what do you do when you

618
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:02,340
approach the woods

619
00:24:06,289 --> 00:24:04,020
we go through this little opening

620
00:24:08,330 --> 00:24:06,299
stopping the car then taking off our

621
00:24:10,610 --> 00:24:08,340
seat belts I'm wondering what the heck

622
00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:10,620
is going on we cross over this little

623
00:24:14,990 --> 00:24:12,780
stream and then we start walking up up

624
00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:15,000
the steps and I see the lights going

625
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:17,220
round fast around the bottom of the ship

626
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:19,919
we walk on through the door and are at

627
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:21,720
the top of the stairs

628
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,520
tell me what you see when you walk in

629
00:24:27,289 --> 00:24:25,440
the door if you see anything

630
00:24:28,610 --> 00:24:27,299
when I walk through the door there's a

631
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,620
lot of computer-like things around

632
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:30,840
they're on the walls to my right and to

633
00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:32,760
my left but there are none in front of

634
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:36,120
me they the walls they bend a little

635
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:37,679
what makes you think these things are

636
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:40,260
computers can you describe them

637
00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:41,700
there are these little lights that

638
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:43,559
flicker off and on all over the place

639
00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:45,960
there's a screen there's a big window

640
00:24:51,289 --> 00:24:48,900
above the computer unquote

641
00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:51,299
now clearly already at this point we see

642
00:24:55,789 --> 00:24:53,580
that they are to some extent being led

643
00:24:58,490 --> 00:24:55,799
they are being sent telepathic signals

644
00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:58,500
that makes them do certain things that

645
00:25:02,149 --> 00:25:00,360
even she says they're doing a certain

646
00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:02,159
thing but she doesn't know why they're

647
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:03,780
doing it they just seem to be following

648
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:06,720
some sort of telepathic impulse being

649
00:25:11,870 --> 00:25:09,360
sent by these others and that becomes

650
00:25:14,690 --> 00:25:11,880
even clearer as the story proceeds

651
00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:14,700
quoting again from the book quote then

652
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,980
she adds I'm walking into another room

653
00:25:22,130 --> 00:25:19,200
as if she has experienced a motor

654
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,140
response herself walking prior to any

655
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:24,720
thought why are you doing this

656
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,260
I don't know oh now I know because they

657
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:31,440
told me to who told you I inquire I

658
00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:33,779
don't know I haven't seen him yet they

659
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:35,820
just it was all suddenly just in my head

660
00:25:40,909 --> 00:25:39,000
to go like ESP or something they just

661
00:25:42,409 --> 00:25:40,919
told me to go down the hallway go to the

662
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:42,419
third room on the left with the lights

663
00:25:45,049 --> 00:25:43,260
on

664
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,059
there are other rooms off the hallway

665
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,799
but I can't see into them because

666
00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:48,240
they're all dark

667
00:25:51,470 --> 00:25:50,580
are you in the room yet Carol what do

668
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:51,480
you see

669
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,400
yes there's just a little table with

670
00:25:57,289 --> 00:25:55,200
lights above it and a door off on the

671
00:25:59,390 --> 00:25:57,299
side in the room but I can't see where

672
00:26:01,310 --> 00:25:59,400
it goes to because it's so dark except

673
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:01,320
for the lights above the table

674
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,840
there's a window it's just black with no

675
00:26:07,789 --> 00:26:05,520
light coming from it

676
00:26:09,169 --> 00:26:07,799
now I'm getting up on the table now I'm

677
00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:09,179
laying on the table

678
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:10,919
why are you getting up on the table and

679
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,380
then lying on it I guess they told me to

680
00:26:17,930 --> 00:26:15,600
again like to do it an idea that just

681
00:26:20,269 --> 00:26:17,940
popped into my head go lie on the table

682
00:26:22,010 --> 00:26:20,279
like I know they said something to me

683
00:26:24,769 --> 00:26:22,020
but I couldn't hear it with my ears or

684
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,779
anything but in my mind I know they said

685
00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:26,640
it unquote

686
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:28,919
now what's interesting here is Carol is

687
00:26:33,169 --> 00:26:31,440
in real time experiencing how strange it

688
00:26:35,149 --> 00:26:33,179
is that she's doing things based on

689
00:26:37,549 --> 00:26:35,159
these commands these ideas that are just

690
00:26:39,710 --> 00:26:37,559
popping into her mind now in this show

691
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:39,720
we're very familiar with the telepathic

692
00:26:43,789 --> 00:26:42,120
communication that happens and even the

693
00:26:46,190 --> 00:26:43,799
impulse control the Consciousness

694
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:46,200
control some of these others wield over

695
00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:49,080
human beings but this was in the 1970s

696
00:26:52,850 --> 00:26:50,820
none of that was really understood at

697
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:52,860
this point and you can see in real time

698
00:26:58,490 --> 00:26:55,679
how Carol is shocked by her own behavior

699
00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:58,500
as it replays in her mind in the midst

700
00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:00,539
of this hypnotic regression

701
00:27:04,909 --> 00:27:02,940
now this ability they apparently wield

702
00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:04,919
to control our very experience of

703
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,980
reality continues to be on display in

704
00:27:11,810 --> 00:27:09,360
what happens next

705
00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:11,820
quoting from the book again quote what

706
00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:13,860
is happening now Carol tell me if you

707
00:27:16,669 --> 00:27:14,940
are able

708
00:27:19,490 --> 00:27:16,679
I'm still laying on the table but I

709
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,500
can't see anything now it's dark I can

710
00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:20,880
see a shadow over by the door because

711
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,260
there's a dim light coming out through

712
00:27:27,769 --> 00:27:24,720
the other room it's just standing there

713
00:27:30,049 --> 00:27:27,779
and to my next question what or who is

714
00:27:32,330 --> 00:27:30,059
just standing there there is no response

715
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:32,340
the question is repeated but still no

716
00:27:37,610 --> 00:27:34,260
response something about the question

717
00:27:40,330 --> 00:27:37,620
seems to disturb her she tenses up I

718
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:40,340
change direction asking how do you feel

719
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,080
surprisingly she says I feel relaxed

720
00:27:46,909 --> 00:27:45,360
real good I'm getting off the table now

721
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:46,919
and walking out of the room into this

722
00:27:52,370 --> 00:27:49,980
other room it's a real real dark room

723
00:27:54,289 --> 00:27:52,380
again Carol's movements as well as her

724
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:54,299
moods seem controlled by a distant

725
00:27:58,850 --> 00:27:57,120
telepathic command as more time passes

726
00:28:00,769 --> 00:27:58,860
she seems to gain more command of

727
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:00,779
herself she notes that the room has

728
00:28:05,210 --> 00:28:02,820
suddenly become light but she can't

729
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:05,220
detect a source she begins to wonder

730
00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:08,159
where her baby is but it is as if the

731
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,260
thought just begins to form then seems

732
00:28:14,990 --> 00:28:12,480
to get disconnected from an emotional

733
00:28:17,390 --> 00:28:15,000
response and while she still is in this

734
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:17,400
disjointed Consciousness she walks about

735
00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:19,919
the room seemingly calm casually

736
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:22,380
observing some Furnishings like a low

737
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:25,260
couch-like table nothing else much like

738
00:28:30,169 --> 00:28:27,960
the examination room after time she

739
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:30,179
begins to wonder in the same detached

740
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,340
off-hand way what are they going to do

741
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,039
next her mood shifts once more she

742
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,960
suddenly becomes very tense her

743
00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:38,640
breathing changes to a series of short

744
00:28:43,549 --> 00:28:41,220
gaps her fist clinch and her whole body

745
00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,559
tightens rigidly then as if long

746
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:45,720
suppressed emotions break she cries out

747
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,659
I'm scared I'm really scared I want to

748
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,159
go home home

749
00:28:54,529 --> 00:28:52,559
her voice becomes one long sob and she

750
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,539
continues I want to go home I want to

751
00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:56,880
run I want to get out of here I've got

752
00:28:59,630 --> 00:28:58,500
to get out of here oh my God I want to

753
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,640
go home

754
00:29:02,990 --> 00:29:01,440
and with her emotions apparently now

755
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:03,000
integrated into her awakened

756
00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:05,279
Consciousness she remembers amazingly

757
00:29:09,230 --> 00:29:06,840
that she has a three and a half month

758
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,240
old baby and that she has been separated

759
00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:11,760
from this child for quite some time she

760
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,500
has no idea where he is nor his

761
00:29:18,769 --> 00:29:15,600
condition apparently her maternal

762
00:29:21,230 --> 00:29:18,779
Instinct has returned I want my baby I

763
00:29:23,090 --> 00:29:21,240
want my Mickey she cries out as if with

764
00:29:25,010 --> 00:29:23,100
sudden awareness that her child and her

765
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,020
husband are gone

766
00:29:29,870 --> 00:29:27,600
now at this point I'm sure if we were to

767
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:29,880
put ourselves in her shoes we can

768
00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:31,860
understand her concern we can understand

769
00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:34,440
her Terror she suddenly realizes she's

770
00:29:39,169 --> 00:29:37,080
alone in this strange craft and she

771
00:29:41,570 --> 00:29:39,179
doesn't know where her husband nor her

772
00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:41,580
young baby is you can understand this

773
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:44,460
would be a very concerning situation

774
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:46,919
but as it turns out the situation then

775
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:49,200
changes again when these beings bring

776
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:51,600
her baby back to her quitting from the

777
00:29:57,409 --> 00:29:54,480
book again quote Oh God someone is

778
00:29:59,810 --> 00:29:57,419
coming in the room oh God oh God just

779
00:30:02,029 --> 00:29:59,820
look at it just let it be human just let

780
00:30:04,490 --> 00:30:02,039
it be human I see it and it's got arms

781
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:04,500
and legs like a person got a head like a

782
00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:07,260
person it's got something over its head

783
00:30:13,549 --> 00:30:10,620
ugly ah yuck Brown bubbly skin and a

784
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:13,559
suit oh God let it be human but but

785
00:30:18,049 --> 00:30:15,899
whatever it is it can't be all bad can't

786
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:18,059
be it can't because he's got Mickey with

787
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:20,340
him he's got my baby it can't be that

788
00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:22,440
bad because he's handing me Mickey he's

789
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:24,360
giving me Mickey I've got Mickey I've

790
00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:28,140
got him she shouts I've got him unquote

791
00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:30,360
now in this particular situation two

792
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:32,820
things we should make note of number one

793
00:30:37,070 --> 00:30:35,220
quickly her concerns are alleviated when

794
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:37,080
they give her back her child and he

795
00:30:40,909 --> 00:30:39,360
seems no worse for the wearer but in the

796
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:40,919
midst of that we also see her

797
00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:43,980
ontological shock on clear display when

798
00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:46,440
she notices this being and notices it's

799
00:30:51,409 --> 00:30:48,779
clearly not human and she initially has

800
00:30:53,210 --> 00:30:51,419
that visceral negative reaction just

801
00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:53,220
because of the way it looks

802
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,039
now related to this I recently engaged

803
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,559
in a conversation on social media where

804
00:31:02,029 --> 00:31:00,480
I discussed this very thing this very

805
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,039
contradiction and the way we talk about

806
00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:04,559
the way they look and quoting from what

807
00:31:09,710 --> 00:31:07,080
I wrote on social media quote we humans

808
00:31:12,110 --> 00:31:09,720
are often highly suspicious of the alien

809
00:31:14,690 --> 00:31:12,120
beings who use screen memories to hide

810
00:31:16,610 --> 00:31:14,700
their true appearance from us that said

811
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:16,620
when shown what they actually look like

812
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:19,320
we often respond with evolutionarily

813
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:22,740
derived abject Terror unquote

814
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:25,080
now a couple points here one I'm making

815
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:26,940
the point that you can see to some

816
00:31:30,649 --> 00:31:28,440
degree how these others may be caught

817
00:31:33,649 --> 00:31:30,659
between a rock and a hard place because

818
00:31:35,210 --> 00:31:33,659
they are accused of being underhanded in

819
00:31:37,310 --> 00:31:35,220
not showing us their true appearance

820
00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:37,320
when on the other hand when they do show

821
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:39,240
us what they actually look like we

822
00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:41,880
respond with evolutionarily derived

823
00:31:46,909 --> 00:31:43,620
abject Terror

824
00:31:48,769 --> 00:31:46,919
so they kind of can't win either way now

825
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:48,779
I want to point out that I said they're

826
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:51,840
evolutionarily derived and I made that

827
00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:54,320
point because people can be generally

828
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:56,940
non-prejudiced and still respond with

829
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,760
fright in these situations responding

830
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:01,919
with fear here doesn't make them bad

831
00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:03,960
people it just means that we should

832
00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:05,880
acknowledge that our response isn't

833
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:09,240
necessarily tied to inherent danger at

834
00:32:15,169 --> 00:32:12,840
hand again it's an evolutionary response

835
00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:15,179
now I've heard some people on the social

836
00:32:19,970 --> 00:32:17,460
media thread say well I wouldn't respond

837
00:32:22,970 --> 00:32:19,980
that way I would be very welcoming and I

838
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:22,980
say maybe but again because this is

839
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:24,840
evolutionarily derived we don't

840
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:26,880
necessarily have initial conscious

841
00:32:32,029 --> 00:32:29,460
control over our response think about

842
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,039
how you respond to a spider is that

843
00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:34,799
rational is it based on actual danger at

844
00:32:38,269 --> 00:32:35,820
hand

845
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:38,279
now that said people can learn through

846
00:32:43,549 --> 00:32:40,860
desensitization techniques to become

847
00:32:45,889 --> 00:32:43,559
less afraid of spiders but again when

848
00:32:48,350 --> 00:32:45,899
people first encounter these others that

849
00:32:51,649 --> 00:32:48,360
look very different and often look like

850
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,659
giant bugs giant insectoid beings

851
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:53,580
they haven't had the chance to be

852
00:32:59,870 --> 00:32:56,159
desensitized this happens all in one go

853
00:33:02,149 --> 00:32:59,880
and it's a massive ontological shock

854
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:02,159
now getting back to Carol's experience

855
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,500
again she's been given back her baby he

856
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:06,240
seems no worse for the wear

857
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:08,880
and remember earlier on that Joe talked

858
00:33:13,009 --> 00:33:10,559
about how amazing it would be if they

859
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:13,019
could go for a flight in space

860
00:33:18,289 --> 00:33:15,480
well check out what happens next going

861
00:33:20,509 --> 00:33:18,299
back to Carol's experience quote it's

862
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,519
getting dark in the room too oh there's

863
00:33:26,029 --> 00:33:23,039
a window she then remarks as if very

864
00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:26,039
surprised as if it wasn't there before I

865
00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:28,980
ask Carol can you see out the window yes

866
00:33:33,409 --> 00:33:31,320
I see these lights flashing by my

867
00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:33,419
stomach feels kind of fluttery the

868
00:33:37,970 --> 00:33:35,220
window light is coming in and then it

869
00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:37,980
goes away comes back goes away I think

870
00:33:42,289 --> 00:33:39,960
it's the stars that are doing that she

871
00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:42,299
says with great surprise in her voice

872
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,240
I can't I just can't believe it a tone

873
00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:47,279
of the awesome and the incredulous now

874
00:33:51,409 --> 00:33:48,600
feels her voice

875
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:51,419
I think I'm flying it really seems like

876
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,580
we're moving it's really great

877
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:55,440
later we determined that the craft has

878
00:33:59,930 --> 00:33:57,720
been spinning while ascending giving the

879
00:34:01,850 --> 00:33:59,940
illusion that the stars are moving

880
00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:01,860
then her voice changes to puzzlement

881
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:05,220
it's now black out there just black it's

882
00:34:10,669 --> 00:34:08,460
real black now out there I don't know I

883
00:34:13,970 --> 00:34:10,679
can't believe it I think I'm flying she

884
00:34:16,669 --> 00:34:13,980
shouts again then abruptly oh I'm

885
00:34:18,589 --> 00:34:16,679
looking down Carol is crying softly now

886
00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:18,599
her breath is labored tears stream

887
00:34:24,109 --> 00:34:21,720
copiously down her cheeks in short gasps

888
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,119
of breath she struggles to speak I ask

889
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:25,679
her to try to describe what she is

890
00:34:30,409 --> 00:34:26,820
looking at

891
00:34:33,470 --> 00:34:30,419
Earth Earth she cries out it's beautiful

892
00:34:34,369 --> 00:34:33,480
I'm looking down at earth oh God it's so

893
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:34,379
beautiful

894
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:35,760
unquote

895
00:34:40,190 --> 00:34:37,980
now soon Carol receives another

896
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:40,200
telepathic communication though this

897
00:34:44,990 --> 00:34:41,760
isn't a command to go into a certain

898
00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:45,000
room instead she learns that they mean

899
00:34:48,649 --> 00:34:46,679
well this is what they tell her through

900
00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:48,659
the telepathic communication

901
00:34:52,849 --> 00:34:51,659
quoting from the book quote now she

902
00:34:55,490 --> 00:34:52,859
seems to have received another

903
00:34:57,050 --> 00:34:55,500
telepathic communication this one tells

904
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,060
her that they were not going to hurt her

905
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:59,040
it's like they just told me in my head

906
00:35:02,270 --> 00:35:00,720
that they weren't going to hurt me that

907
00:35:05,390 --> 00:35:02,280
they were good and they didn't want to

908
00:35:07,310 --> 00:35:05,400
hurt me unquote and then later she

909
00:35:09,950 --> 00:35:07,320
actually sees them playing with her

910
00:35:12,829 --> 00:35:09,960
child and this again makes her feel much

911
00:35:15,530 --> 00:35:12,839
more at ease than she was quote she

912
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,540
smiles she begins to laugh then Chuckles

913
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:17,760
loudly I don't know how to say it but it

914
00:35:20,930 --> 00:35:19,200
looks like they're just bouncing Mickey

915
00:35:22,849 --> 00:35:20,940
I don't know it just looks like they're

916
00:35:25,130 --> 00:35:22,859
playing with him there are two of them

917
00:35:27,170 --> 00:35:25,140
standing there playing with him oh gosh

918
00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:27,180
that looks so funny Mickey he's just

919
00:35:30,050 --> 00:35:28,200
laughing

920
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:30,060
they look like they're just having fun

921
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:31,920
she laughs they're still playing with

922
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:33,839
them I don't believe it just bouncing

923
00:35:38,750 --> 00:35:35,579
them around they must have played with

924
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:38,760
him the whole time unquote

925
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:41,280
now this was Carol's experience what was

926
00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:43,740
happening with Joe this entire time we

927
00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:45,720
now jumped to his experience as was

928
00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:47,540
recalled in the hypnotic regression

929
00:35:52,730 --> 00:35:50,940
quote with careless sleep Joe is led

930
00:35:55,010 --> 00:35:52,740
into what Carol calls the computer room

931
00:35:57,230 --> 00:35:55,020
perhaps the command center of the ship

932
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,240
apparently it is the very room with the

933
00:36:01,370 --> 00:35:59,040
large Doorway to the outside and the

934
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:01,380
stairs that lead to the ground Joe has

935
00:36:04,490 --> 00:36:03,119
been separated from Carol and has been

936
00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:04,500
subjected to a different kind of

937
00:36:07,609 --> 00:36:06,780
examination about which we know very

938
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:07,619
little

939
00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:09,300
Joe seems to have been under full

940
00:36:13,310 --> 00:36:11,700
anesthesia much of the time but we know

941
00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:13,320
that his knees are swollen as a result

942
00:36:17,810 --> 00:36:16,380
making walking difficult at the present

943
00:36:19,609 --> 00:36:17,820
time he is studied by one of the

944
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:19,619
entities who leads him into the

945
00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:21,839
so-called computer room again this is

946
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:23,820
the room with a big Doorway to the

947
00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:26,880
outside the door is now open the entity

948
00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:30,060
now turns to face Joe Joe sees a bright

949
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:32,460
spiral of energy beginning to form in

950
00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:34,619
the space between them the spinning

951
00:36:39,170 --> 00:36:37,260
energy gets larger and larger eventually

952
00:36:40,430 --> 00:36:39,180
surrounding both Joe and the entity

953
00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:40,440
itself

954
00:36:45,890 --> 00:36:43,320
then seeming to reverse the spiral pulls

955
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:45,900
Joe out of his body apparently doing the

956
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:48,480
same to The Entity here we are led to

957
00:36:52,190 --> 00:36:50,160
believe they are now between their

958
00:36:55,310 --> 00:36:52,200
respective physical bodies where they

959
00:36:58,370 --> 00:36:55,320
now meet and join Joe describes a scene

960
00:37:01,370 --> 00:36:58,380
crying out he's pulling me out I'm out

961
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:01,380
I'm two but I'm one there is an energy

962
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:04,079
coming from him it's a light there's a

963
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:06,300
spiral of energy a bright light forming

964
00:37:11,150 --> 00:37:08,820
between us like a pinwheel spinning it

965
00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:11,160
all turns towards the center the energy

966
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:13,260
Spirals and Spins and it's drawing me

967
00:37:18,410 --> 00:37:16,320
out of my body my body is behind me I

968
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:18,420
have another body now but but how can

969
00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:19,500
that be

970
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,140
after the Outburst Joe Falls silent as

971
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:24,960
if now asleep after a Tama asked him if

972
00:37:29,150 --> 00:37:27,599
he is able to speak he continues in what

973
00:37:31,790 --> 00:37:29,160
seems like a maze of speechless

974
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:31,800
bewilderment it's just like our two

975
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,140
minds meet but not meet like in our

976
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:36,240
heads it's like we both separate from

977
00:37:41,569 --> 00:37:38,280
our bodies and meet in the center of the

978
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:41,579
spinning spiral of energy between us I

979
00:37:45,829 --> 00:37:43,020
asked Joe if he knows why this is

980
00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:45,839
happening to him he replies The Entity

981
00:37:50,510 --> 00:37:47,940
is doing this because he says he's doing

982
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:50,520
this because he wants me to know him to

983
00:37:55,490 --> 00:37:52,560
know what he's really like before we go

984
00:37:57,530 --> 00:37:55,500
before we leave the ship he wants me to

985
00:37:59,810 --> 00:37:57,540
truly know him he says

986
00:38:02,089 --> 00:37:59,820
Jill pauses a long time to gather his

987
00:38:03,950 --> 00:38:02,099
words it's like there is one ball of

988
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:03,960
energy now and both of us are in it

989
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:06,240
we're in this ball of energy but my body

990
00:38:10,970 --> 00:38:09,000
is behind me I just floated out

991
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,980
Joe's voice is quivering with emotion

992
00:38:15,050 --> 00:38:13,200
and he is close to crying to The

993
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:15,060
Observer it seems that he is overcome

994
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,700
with awe and disbelief as if what is

995
00:38:22,490 --> 00:38:19,920
happening to him is at both very real

996
00:38:24,829 --> 00:38:22,500
and equally incomprehensible

997
00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:24,839
Joe's face takes on a look of total

998
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:27,480
peace and serenity and tears begin to

999
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:29,940
slowly form and fall from his cheeks

1000
00:38:33,890 --> 00:38:31,980
trying to get a better sense of what Joe

1001
00:38:37,069 --> 00:38:33,900
is experiencing in this apparent out of

1002
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,079
the body experience I asked Joe where

1003
00:38:41,329 --> 00:38:39,359
are you I mean in your mind where are

1004
00:38:43,010 --> 00:38:41,339
you or if there's a better way to

1005
00:38:44,210 --> 00:38:43,020
express yourself in your emotions how do

1006
00:38:46,370 --> 00:38:44,220
you feel

1007
00:38:48,829 --> 00:38:46,380
Joe lying on a couch in my study with

1008
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:48,839
eyes closed still in a deep hypnotic

1009
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:51,839
sleep slowly responds he begins with a

1010
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,720
deep and prolonged sigh yet the ecstatic

1011
00:38:59,329 --> 00:38:56,640
look remains on his face

1012
00:39:01,970 --> 00:38:59,339
like I never want to let it go I want to

1013
00:39:04,970 --> 00:39:01,980
never let it go and after another long

1014
00:39:08,569 --> 00:39:04,980
pause he continues I feel warm real

1015
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:08,579
Carefree happy peaceful seems like our

1016
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:11,040
two parts make one feels like I could

1017
00:39:14,930 --> 00:39:12,480
just just

1018
00:39:17,210 --> 00:39:14,940
voice drifts off then continues after

1019
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,220
another long silence during which he

1020
00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:18,960
seems to have been immersed in the

1021
00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:21,960
experience he drew me out of my body we

1022
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,820
meet between our bodies in the same ball

1023
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:26,400
of energy between US just one ball and

1024
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:28,920
we both are in it and it somehow feels

1025
00:39:33,470 --> 00:39:31,560
like I could just float away leave my

1026
00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:33,480
body there just leave it standing behind

1027
00:39:36,650 --> 00:39:34,440
me

1028
00:39:38,329 --> 00:39:36,660
seeking to further probe the event still

1029
00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:38,339
hoping to gain a better feel for the

1030
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,260
psychology of it my questioning

1031
00:39:44,569 --> 00:39:42,480
continues can you still feel yourself

1032
00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:44,579
when you're in this ball of energy or

1033
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:46,440
have you sort of melted into the ball of

1034
00:39:50,329 --> 00:39:48,480
energy describe it if you still have

1035
00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:50,339
your full sense of self

1036
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:52,859
it's kind of like I can feel both

1037
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:55,260
but it's more like just one person he

1038
00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:56,400
and I

1039
00:40:00,890 --> 00:39:58,500
then I ask Joe can you see what's around

1040
00:40:03,050 --> 00:40:00,900
you while in your present situation

1041
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:03,060
I can see everything but it seems like

1042
00:40:08,030 --> 00:40:05,520
it doesn't matter I can see outside the

1043
00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:08,040
ship me him the stairs from the ship

1044
00:40:12,530 --> 00:40:09,540
going down

1045
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:12,540
you say you can see you where are you

1046
00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:15,599
I'm kind of in two places at once when I

1047
00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:17,220
asked Joe to tell me more about it he

1048
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,320
answers my body is standing there but

1049
00:40:24,349 --> 00:40:21,359
the power to move it's away from it

1050
00:40:26,990 --> 00:40:24,359
seems like I am part of him now

1051
00:40:29,390 --> 00:40:27,000
returning to Joe later on I ask if the

1052
00:40:31,609 --> 00:40:29,400
Obe has given him any insight into the

1053
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:31,619
basic nature the inner makeup of the

1054
00:40:36,770 --> 00:40:34,560
alien being especially given that the

1055
00:40:38,750 --> 00:40:36,780
entities seem truly wanting Joe to know

1056
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:38,760
what he is really like

1057
00:40:41,569 --> 00:40:40,680
are they like us Joe or are they

1058
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:41,579
different

1059
00:40:47,450 --> 00:40:45,540
responds quickly and this is hardly more

1060
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,460
enlightening in what way are they

1061
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:50,400
different Joe now very slowly replies

1062
00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:54,000
they don't seem to have to have bad

1063
00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:55,380
qualities

1064
00:40:59,569 --> 00:40:56,940
what makes you feel they have no bad

1065
00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:59,579
qualities Joe how can you tell

1066
00:41:04,609 --> 00:41:01,800
I can just feel it they just seem so

1067
00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:04,619
peaceful I can feel it I can feel what

1068
00:41:07,310 --> 00:41:05,700
they're like

1069
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:07,320
unquote

1070
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:09,300
now in that last section I read from

1071
00:41:13,609 --> 00:41:11,280
there you will notice that Joe mentioned

1072
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,619
seeing the stairs of The Craft that's

1073
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:15,440
because they are now back on the ground

1074
00:41:21,050 --> 00:41:18,359
and soon Joe is reunited with Carol and

1075
00:41:23,569 --> 00:41:21,060
the baby and then Joe watches as they

1076
00:41:26,030 --> 00:41:23,579
very carefully return them all to the

1077
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:26,040
car now at that point Joe starts driving

1078
00:41:31,370 --> 00:41:28,680
away until he is overcome with fatigue

1079
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:31,380
and decides to take a nap during this

1080
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:33,420
whole time it seems like a certain craft

1081
00:41:38,810 --> 00:41:36,420
a ball of light stays over the car while

1082
00:41:41,089 --> 00:41:38,820
they are resting when they wake up and

1083
00:41:43,490 --> 00:41:41,099
drive away this craft stays with them

1084
00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:43,500
until they are back on the highway and

1085
00:41:47,329 --> 00:41:46,020
only then does it depart and here we

1086
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:47,339
come to the point where they suddenly

1087
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,040
have conscious recall being 150 miles

1088
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:52,800
down the road with four hours of missing

1089
00:41:57,230 --> 00:41:55,020
time and what we just described is

1090
00:41:59,930 --> 00:41:57,240
exactly what happened according to this

1091
00:42:01,910 --> 00:41:59,940
hypnotic regression during those missing

1092
00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:01,920
four hours

1093
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:04,200
now one interesting question to always

1094
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:06,660
ask about these kinds of scenarios is

1095
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,880
how were people Changed by it what was

1096
00:42:12,109 --> 00:42:11,040
the long-term impact of this kind of

1097
00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:12,119
encounter

1098
00:42:15,710 --> 00:42:14,280
this is what Carol's response was to

1099
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:15,720
that question

1100
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:18,240
quote Carol taking the initiative is the

1101
00:42:22,609 --> 00:42:19,680
first to reply

1102
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:22,619
yes I think now more than I used to and

1103
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,060
now I am much more aware of the world

1104
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:26,640
than I used to be for example I'm more

1105
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:29,220
outward like it's not just me there are

1106
00:42:33,290 --> 00:42:30,720
millions of people around me who have

1107
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:33,300
the same dreams I have I'm more aware of

1108
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:35,700
that now and another thing I just don't

1109
00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:37,500
let people take advantage of me like I

1110
00:42:42,349 --> 00:42:40,140
used to since the experience I am not as

1111
00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:42,359
passive as I used to be I'm much more

1112
00:42:48,109 --> 00:42:45,000
responsive and assertive I stand up and

1113
00:42:50,089 --> 00:42:48,119
give my opinion more often now I open my

1114
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:50,099
mouth when I disagree with people more

1115
00:42:54,829 --> 00:42:52,560
than ever I used to yes I can speak up

1116
00:42:56,930 --> 00:42:54,839
more unquote

1117
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:56,940
and when the therapist asked Joe how

1118
00:43:02,809 --> 00:43:00,000
he's been changed he says quote I can

1119
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:02,819
like people easier than I could before I

1120
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,800
didn't like too many people before just

1121
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:06,240
very few people

1122
00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:08,460
also I'm not so fearful of people as

1123
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:11,099
before or if I'm poor and my neighbor is

1124
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:12,720
Rich it don't matter to me anymore

1125
00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:14,700
unquote

1126
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,740
and by the way soon after that in the

1127
00:43:21,410 --> 00:43:18,720
dialogue Joe goes on to say he feels

1128
00:43:23,150 --> 00:43:21,420
closer to God after this experience and

1129
00:43:25,550 --> 00:43:23,160
doesn't fear death like he did before

1130
00:43:27,650 --> 00:43:25,560
and doesn't think about hell despite

1131
00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:27,660
what he was taught growing up in a

1132
00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:29,460
fundamentalist family that the

1133
00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:31,260
experience with this being during this

1134
00:43:35,870 --> 00:43:33,300
out of Body Experience made him feel

1135
00:43:38,329 --> 00:43:35,880
very comfortable about the depth and

1136
00:43:40,430 --> 00:43:38,339
breadth of what reality and life truly

1137
00:43:42,650 --> 00:43:40,440
is about

1138
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,660
so I think you'll agree this is a truly

1139
00:43:45,530 --> 00:43:44,400
astonishing case that has a little bit

1140
00:43:47,329 --> 00:43:45,540
of everything

1141
00:43:48,530 --> 00:43:47,339
and I'll leave you with these concluding

1142
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:48,540
thoughts

1143
00:43:53,150 --> 00:43:51,119
well cases like this do is complicate

1144
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:53,160
our simple one-dimensional narratives

1145
00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:55,440
about what's going on with the UFO

1146
00:43:59,870 --> 00:43:58,020
phenomenon some people see the actions

1147
00:44:02,270 --> 00:43:59,880
of one group parading around in

1148
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:02,280
different guises others see different

1149
00:44:06,589 --> 00:44:04,260
groups but would like to lump them into

1150
00:44:09,410 --> 00:44:06,599
the binary categories of the goods and

1151
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:09,420
the bads clean polarities all the way up

1152
00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:11,040
and all the way down

1153
00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:13,619
often know as with other aspects of Life

1154
00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:16,020
the picture is more complicated

1155
00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:18,180
the lack of human sovereignty is an

1156
00:44:22,490 --> 00:44:20,040
issue often raised by those who see

1157
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:22,500
these others as taking us against our

1158
00:44:25,309 --> 00:44:23,400
will

1159
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:25,319
and to some degree that happens here

1160
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:27,599
though if you remember Joe actually

1161
00:44:32,089 --> 00:44:29,760
talked about offering themselves up as

1162
00:44:34,430 --> 00:44:32,099
guinea pigs as it were before the quote

1163
00:44:36,650 --> 00:44:34,440
unquote abduction actually took place

1164
00:44:39,050 --> 00:44:36,660
that isn't to say this is always the

1165
00:44:41,569 --> 00:44:39,060
case with people but it was here

1166
00:44:43,849 --> 00:44:41,579
we also see in this case like in so many

1167
00:44:46,730 --> 00:44:43,859
others clear signs of Consciousness

1168
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:46,740
control they can seemingly beam commands

1169
00:44:51,710 --> 00:44:48,780
into our minds that we seem largely

1170
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,720
unable to resist often only being able

1171
00:44:56,210 --> 00:44:53,520
to see that it did not originate with us

1172
00:44:58,370 --> 00:44:56,220
to begin with after the fact

1173
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,380
and of course we see here that they also

1174
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,240
enable a true transformation in

1175
00:45:05,450 --> 00:45:02,640
Consciousness that as is often the case

1176
00:45:08,450 --> 00:45:05,460
at the end of the day the contactees end

1177
00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:08,460
up feeling appreciative of in Joe's case

1178
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:10,500
the utter Body Experience he experienced

1179
00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:12,660
was so profound that it took away his

1180
00:45:16,670 --> 00:45:14,940
fear of death helped him see that he was

1181
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,680
not fully distinct and separate from

1182
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:18,960
others even when those others were

1183
00:45:23,809 --> 00:45:21,599
apparently alien

1184
00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:23,819
these kinds of events are no doubt

1185
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,700
complex while these others do often seem

1186
00:45:30,650 --> 00:45:28,800
to mean well and often even end up

1187
00:45:32,809 --> 00:45:30,660
healing people in these interactions

1188
00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:32,819
they also seem to be lacking in the

1189
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:34,859
fullness of understanding as to what

1190
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:36,960
they could do to put us more at ease to

1191
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,359
begin with in other words there seems to

1192
00:45:43,609 --> 00:45:41,280
be a lack of understanding of human

1193
00:45:46,609 --> 00:45:43,619
nature and perhaps this shouldn't

1194
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:46,619
surprise us for rather than being the

1195
00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:48,960
one-dimensional angels and demons that

1196
00:45:53,329 --> 00:45:51,420
some paint them to be what we see in

1197
00:45:55,790 --> 00:45:53,339
their actions are signs that they are

1198
00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:55,800
mortal beings like us these particular

1199
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,260
ones anyway

1200
00:46:02,210 --> 00:45:59,520
well-meaning and more evolved in many

1201
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:02,220
ways but also imperfect and still

1202
00:46:07,130 --> 00:46:05,040
evolving and this mixed bag I would

1203
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:07,140
suggest is exactly what we would expect

1204
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,780
to find if what we are interacting with

1205
00:46:15,530 --> 00:46:12,240
are conscious agents to use a Donald

1206
00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:15,540
Hoffman phrase who are like us walking

1207
00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:18,180
out an experience of individuality and

1208
00:46:24,530 --> 00:46:21,000
relative finiteness but who are also

1209
00:46:26,690 --> 00:46:24,540
under are lyingly just like us part of

1210
00:46:29,210 --> 00:46:26,700
the undivided Bedrock of Consciousness

1211
00:46:31,609 --> 00:46:29,220
that has spawned all of the wondrous

1212
00:46:34,430 --> 00:46:31,619
complexity we find present in our

1213
00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:34,440
diverse multi-dimensional and richly

1214
00:46:40,370 --> 00:46:37,859
populated Cosmos

1215
00:46:42,650 --> 00:46:40,380
and on that note we've come to the close

1216
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:42,660
of another edition of the point of

1217
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:44,940
convergence podcast if you'd like to

1218
00:46:48,910 --> 00:46:47,040
support this podcast you can do so by

1219
00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:48,920
going to patreon.com

1220
00:46:53,930 --> 00:46:51,540
XO academian

1221
00:46:55,849 --> 00:46:53,940
but until next time friends from deep

1222
00:46:59,329 --> 00:46:55,859
within the Blue Ridge Mountains of North